Where Angles Fear to Tread

June 26, 2016

Not in my Name

Filed under: Politics, UK Politics — Right Angle @ 8:37 pm

Just a short note this time, as I need to rest a little following the interesting Referedum result. However, I feel the need to say two things. One very important and other almost so.

Whilst the Leave campaign did lead on immigration, many of us who voted for them have reasons other than immigration and not liking people who don’t look like us. (Middle class, white people). I am aware that some of the people who supported the Leave campaign, and some who voted for it are racists. I understand that the side they were supporting won, but the vast, vast majority of the British public are not racists.

So, stop it – now. It is not acceptable, and not right to make people feel anxious or worried, or threatening them, leaving notes on their cars, or shouting at them in public. Anyone who does so does not represent the British public and if I see any of it happen I hope I am brave enough to call people on it – even strangers.

Please remember this as you dig into your Curry, Pizza, Chow Mein, or Fish & Chips.

 

And secondly, the Remain campaign had 40 years to reform the EU and a final warning that we might leave and succeeded in very little. It might be kind it those who voted Remain were to give the Leave campaigners slightly longer than a 3 day weekend.

– Right Angle

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6 Comments »

  1. I am sorry you feel this way
    However you should not expect sympathy for the unintended consequences of vote exit and I must say you are wrong, it was all about immigration. I voted to stay, and I engaged in numerous conversations with many people and whenever I spoke to a leaver, immigration was either their first justification or second, after ‘Taking back our country’.
    Normal, reasonable people told me we should let the refugees drown in the English Channel, stop the Muslins from coming here. If this is not racism then please feel free to define it.
    This referendum has exposed to ugly side to the British character for the world to see, we have regressed to the divisive racial politics of the 1970’s which I lived through. I am ashamed to be British because I thought we were better than this petty selfishness.
    We now live in a country of shrouded in suspicion, you suspect your neighbours’ of leaving unpleasant notes, and they suspect you of something far worse. I walk about my local supermarket thinking I am surrounded by bigots and racists. It is unpleasant, so was it really worth it?
    Unpleasant is also how my Europeans brothers and sister describe the atmosphere in this country. They feel unwelcomed, unappreciated, judged. I wonder why they feel this. Any ideas?
    All the lies have been exposed, the false claims of EU membership retracted within days by the very politicians who made them. Nothing tangible will change, we will always have the free movement of people otherwise we will not be able to trade with the EU; we will always adopt EU regulations and abide by their laws otherwise our economy with collapse, except now we have no say in their modelling. We have lost more than we have gained on many, many levels.
    As to your second point, 40 years you say. What is 40 years in the context of political history or even 100 in the history of nations and peoples? This country has behaved like a stubborn child on a walk. Having reached a muddy field we have given up and returned to the car because it was uncomfortable, wet and difficult. We are no longer going anywhere except backwards to our small bedsit, and no one will come and visit us because they are far, far away.
    I wonder if this comment could be interrupted as a note left on the car windscreen. I do hope not.
    If you voted to leave, you cannot escape the fallout, it was in your name, take responsibility, be proud of your achievements. Leave people embrace your creation you now have control remember. Enjoy.

    Comment by Paul Nichol — June 26, 2016 @ 11:28 pm

    • Cheers for the comment Paul, but if you’d read the rest of the blog over the last few days you will note I had well thought out reasons for Leave. If your position is taken over by some horrible comments, actions and people it doesn’t make you wrong. I have spoken out about the lies of the leave campaign (on twitter), and my decision was not based on any of them. I am also speaking out about the racist comments and actions of a minority in the UK which people are rightly condeming. Why do you think my condemenation is somehow less valid than yours?

      The assumption that I must be wrong because of the recent actions of a minority of the country is not only wrong, it is insulting. Do you really believe that the UK was all happy and kind to everyone and this sort of thing never happened under the European project? Perhaps the Remain campaign and those who voted for it could wait at least longer than 4 days before attacking those who voted Leave. I know what I wanted, the EU is broken and we are better off out of it and away from the un-democratic bullying attitude of its leaders whose actions directly led to this vote. Remember that the Irish were told to accept the Lisbon treaty again because they voted against it, and I didn’t want this to happen to the UK on our only chance to comment in 40 years.

      You also mention that 40 years is a short time in political history, and this may be true, but it is a long time for a person. There are people in the UK who have not benefitted from the improved economy, who do find it difficult to get their children into school, who know that if you let uncontrolled immigration into a country then wages do go down. I acknowledge that there is a benefit to controlled immigration (where employers prove they cannot fill the requirements with local skills first), but if it’s not controlled the poorest people not only get no benefit but see a distinct disadvantage. This is why people have voted to Leave and to assume that 52% of people voted to Leave because they believed the lies of the Leave campaign (and there were lies in there), but the 48% who voted Remain did so with full understanding of the risks, rewards and arguments shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the makeup of the UK and a belief that the Remain campaign was right because it was the way you voted.

      And I do take responsibility for my vote – otherwise I wouldn’t be blogging about it. I am the only one of my family who admitted to voting Leave and it was not an easy decision.

      Comment by Right Angle — June 27, 2016 @ 5:05 pm

      • RA
        I was not questioning your motives your thought process or your right to vote to leave the EU nor your condemnation of the sea change of racial intolerance that now grips this country being of less value than anyone else’s. I feel I was adding to the debate by saying it was all about immigration and that whatever subject I engaged a leave supporter on, NHS-Housing-Economics-Security, immigration, refugees and foreigners was at the core of their argument.
        I have spoken up against intolerance all my life and I would never support any argument or process that in anyway encouraged social division on any grounds. I often disadvantage myself for the benefit of someone else, as I feel this is why we pay taxes that support our wider society.
        I don’t believe I wrote Britain was happy or that there was no racism prior the referendum, however I do think it would be hard to argue that intolerance and prejudice is on the increase where before the referendum campaign it was in decline.

        It is you who is assuming to know the motives of the leave remain votes, ‘There are people in the UK who have not benefitted from the improved economy, who do find it difficult to get their children into school, who know that if you let uncontrolled immigration into a country then wages do go down. I acknowledge that there is a benefit to controlled immigration (where employers prove they cannot fill the requirements with local skills first), but if it’s not controlled the poorest people not only get no benefit but see a distinct disadvantage. This is why people have voted to Leave and to assume that 52% of people voted to Leave because they believed the lies of the Leave campaign (and there were lies in there), but the 48% who voted Remain did so with full understanding of the risks, rewards and arguments shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the makeup of the UK and a belief that the Remain campaign was right because it was the way you voted.’ I assumed nothing I was reporting my own personal interactions and I expect you have research to back up these facts and proof that the cause is our EU membership and not result of austerity.

        I was not was not a Remain campaigner, I was just a Remain voter. I do not see how I insulted you by making my observations on your post. You did not write please read this post in context with my previous posts because they add up to the whole.

        Such certainty, ‘I know what I wanted, the EU is broken and we are better off out of it and away from the un-democratic bullying attitude of its leaders whose actions directly led to this vote.’ Again I take it you can prove the EU is broken and in what context, or I assume (if I may be so bold) that this is just your personal perception? I am glad you know what you wanted and I hope you get it. Just to clarify, I did not say I was right to vote to Remain, details are important when having debates don’t you think.

        My last paragraph, ‘If you voted to leave, you cannot escape the fallout, it was in your name, take responsibility, be proud of your achievements. Leave people embrace your creation you have control. Enjoy.’ Was clearly written a as a general comment to all Leave voters because if you read it you will see I started it IF YOU, were I know you vote Leave so it was not a personal comment for you.
        I am not sure why voting to Leave was a difficult decision for you because as you wrote earlier, ‘I know want I want’. Puzzling.
        Anyway, it’s been fun, sorry if you feel insulted or uncomfortable with my views, I ‘m not like that. Some of my best friends are Leavers. Joke.
        All the best
        Paul

        Comment by Paul Nichol — June 27, 2016 @ 7:53 pm

        • Paul – I would urge you to read ‘Why I will vote to leave earlier in this blog’. I’m not sure you have.
          Have a good evening and (genuinely) thank you for the comments! – Declan

          Comment by Right Angle — June 27, 2016 @ 8:56 pm

          • Declan
            I will, but not tonight. I have some work to do and obviously there is no rush because even after reading your posts, and if they change my position to a leaver. The vote has pasted. I’ll let you know when I have.

            Paul

            Comment by Paul Nichol — June 27, 2016 @ 9:36 pm

          • Hi Declan

            I could not resist the challenge as politics has been at the core of my life for many long years.

            I read your reasons ‘Why I’m voting to leave 1-2’ and I’m sorry to say I find the issues unconvincing. They may be persuasive from a certain perspective; for they are both true and untrue. Each of your topics can be interrupted multiply ways, and that is how it should be, political debate is all about perceptions and shades of perceptions. For example you mention Greece and the rules being ignored. One major aspect of Greece going the Euro was a major Bank creating a ghost currency, transferring the debt then devaluing the ghost currency so reducing the debt, hence Greece meets entry criteria. Shock horror. Everyone involve agreed and knew about it. Greece was not a victim of a bad EU, Greece was a willing partner. It could be argued that Greece was in fact a victim of the Bank for the bank still holds the ghost currency and Greece has to pay them vast amounts in interest for the pleasure of their unhelpful, help. The Republic of Ireland, the voters were not forced at gun point to vote yes, they chose to because they came to the conclusion it was in their interest to do so, just as we did last week. Also, the common agriculture policy, valid points, needs reform yes, but it has had its successes. Set-Aside-Wetlands two major environmental achievements, reduction of agro-chemicals for a 3rd. Good policies alongside policies in need of improvement.

            I’m not going to go through all the subjects but what I did find very interesting was you recognised an issue, explored it, yet chose to walk away for helping to solve the problems.
            I am a problem solver, I know all things can be improved, new techniques, fresh approaches found. I never walk away. The EU was not broken it was evolving, the EU’s policies were not evolving, and politics were not set, they were evolving. We could have helped develop and construct the EU with British principles, drive and imagination. However, by our exit we have lost that opportunity not just for our generations but for all generations to come. We are smaller for that decision.

            I can understand the need that made people vote to leave, but you should understand that for people like me, being European is fundamental to our existence. I am European; I refuse to be defined by a pencil line on a map. I have lost something so important to me that it feels like I have suffered a great loss, bereavement. My life is now limited, my associations narrowed, my world smaller.

            Control is not always a good thing, and in the case of Brexit, it is a self-imposed prison.

            Believing in the EU is just like believing in GOD, you either do or you don’t. Believe in God and there are endless possibilities of spiritual fulfilment, social companionship, a sense of purpose which far is greater than the sum total of self, free of the vanity of moral life. To not believe in God, is to breath, eat, live then die without purpose or meaning.

            I chose to believe and live in a world of possibility of limitless growth, and not in the grips of a restrictionist, nationalistic, ideology. I long for a world without boarders

            Now I think we have exhausted this tread, it’s been fun and enlightening.

            Paul

            Please excuse any bad typing.

            Comment by Paul Nichol — June 27, 2016 @ 11:40 pm


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